EXCLUSIVE: Conservative firebrand Cawthorn responds to furor over insurrection comments
Madison Cawthorn speaks in Sylva during the 2020 caqmpaign.
Cory Vaillancourt photo
Western North Carolina Congressman Madison Cawthorn is known for making controversial statements, but video footage from a recent Macon County Republican Party that showed him speaking about insurrectionists and another possible rally in Washington has the internet up in arms, and people from both parties again calling for his removal.
Cawthorn took a moment on Sept. 1 to speak with The Smoky Mountain News about what he said, what he meant to say and what he thinks was misconstrued.
The Smoky Mountain News: Back on Jan. 7, I spoke to you right after the insurrection and you called some of the people who stormed the capital disgusting and pathetic . Last weekend in Macon County, a woman asked what you were doing to support those currently incarcerated for their actions on Jan. 6 and you referred to them as “political hostages.” What has changed, in your mind, to drastically alter that definition of these folks?
Rep. Madison Cawthorn: I want to be very clear that the people that I’m specifically talking about, those people were there causing violence or they were causing some kind of vandalism, I want them to be charged to the full extent of the law. Even the people who were actually just around the Capitol, I want them to be charged to the full extent of law.
What I really truly want is due process for these people because I’m starting to understand that people whose only crime was just simply trespassing — not the people who were busting down the doors or fighting against the Capitol police, but the people who literally their only crime was just trespassing in the Capitol — they’re now going to be charged for seven years. I mean, there’s a gentleman, Anthony Griffith from Oklahoma, he walks into the U.S. Capitol building through open doors and he was telling agents he did not see any police officers as he entered the building and he went to a nearby office where he interacted with some individuals, but instead he meandered around the halls. And this is an actual reporting from Fox News after talking to justice department officials. And now he’s going to be held for seven years?
When I started hearing this, I think, wow, these people I don’t believe are getting due process under the law. And I don’t want you to take my word for it, Cory. I mean, Michael Sherwin, an official from the Justice Department , who’s the prosecutor, the lead prosecutor on this, he literally said the reason we’ve gone and rounded up 400 people, it wasn’t because they broke actual laws [but] because I wanted to have shock and awe , because they had the Inauguration coming on the 20th and these people were thumbing their nose at the public, meaning the Democratic Party and those officials, and they wanted to cause a shock and awe factor. So I definitely just want people to be treated fairly under the law. I’m starting to hear lots of reports of people not getting due process, not being provided bail, not being provided the proper representation. I heard most of that from Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and a few other reporters.
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SMN: We can say that these people were trespassers at the very least, but you certainly remember the security around your office on Jan. 20 and 21. Some of the folks in there on Jan. 6 endangered not only the safety of other elected Members of Congress, but your own safety. Do you understand how this is a little more significant than just trespassing?
MC: I think it needs to be pretty specific about the actual people we’re talking about. Because you know, there was definitely, I believe, a group of people within the Jan. 6 protestors, a small minority who literally were the ones that endangered people’s lives, ones who got very aggressive, who were the ones busting down the doors, were going bare-knuckle fisticuffs with the Capitol Police. Those people, I believe are dangerous individuals, but the overwhelming majority of the people of the Jan. 6 thing were just normal people, there for a normal protest to redress their government. And then they saw an open door at the top of the Capitol, and they were just kind of wandering in. I will admit they were trespassing and that was wrong. We’re not advocating for trespassing, but I think there’s just needs to be a delineation between the vast majority of people who have been arrested as Michael Sherman was saying, it was 400 people he arrested not because they broke any actual laws, [but because] he wanted a shock and awe factor.
SMN: One of the specific people that I would refer you to is Ashli Babbitt , who was shot by a Capitol Police officer. Do you believe that that shooting was warranted to keep Members of Congress who were in an adjacent corridor safe?
MC: I really do not have many of the details when it comes to Ashley Babbitt. I don’t actually know much of what happened in that instance, so I don’t feel comfortable speaking on that.
SMN: Another comment on the video from Macon County was about these “political prisoners,” and you said “… if we we’re actually able to go and try to bust them out …” Can you better explain your real motives in terms of making sure that these people are being fairly incarcerated if they in fact deserve to be?
MC: If anybody interpreted what I said, “bust them out,” as me getting out of my wheelchair and going Rambo mode and getting these guys out through some kind of illegal action — that’s by no means what I meant.
I absolutely mean that I just want to make sure these people are having due process under the law. I want to make sure people are allowed to have bail that’s set at a reasonable number. I want them to be tried by their peers. I just want normal due process. Our entire Justice Department is supposed to be blind to political affiliation, but I feel like these people are being targeted specifically because their affiliation. I want due process under the law.
SMN: In the video a man offscreen says, “When are you going to call us to Washington again?” You said “We’re working on that. We are actively working on that one, I don’t have an answer to that one right yet.” Again, in light of the insurrection, do you see a way that you could better clarify your actual intentions?
MC: The way it was actually reported, I can see how it could be misconstrued, but I think through the context of the video, the young woman who was asking about the political prisoners who were locked up and what we’re doing for them — I was in the middle of that answer, and the gentleman behind her yelled out the whole, “When are you calling us back up to Washington?” I then take a pause and then I point directly back at the woman. I didn’t even respond to that gentleman.
We have no plans, and no one is trying to start any form of a protest or anything in Washington. When I said I was actively working on it, I meant I was actually working on getting answers about the political prisoners following Jan. 6. By no means is anyone actively that I know of trying to plan some political protest going on in Washington. My office has no plans of that at all.
SMN: In that context, people have seen your close relationship with former President Trump. People have commented that he’s operating kind of a “shadow cabinet” with some former advisors — people like Mark Meadows, people like yourself. I think it gives people pause when you say things like this, and they ask, “Is there some sort of cabal, or is this group that Madison is part of actively plotting further measures to overturn the results of the 2020 election?” Can you characterize what that group of folks that you’ve been hanging out with, along with former President Trump, are talking about or working on or trying to accomplish?
MC: The first time I ever heard about QAnon was from, I think it might have actually been from you, asking how I felt about it, and I really didn’t know anything about it. But, when we start using the terms like “shadow cabinet” and “cabal,” I mean, that starts to sound really Q-ish. I can assure you we’re a part of no shadow cabinet. I do consider myself a close confidant of President Trump, who I know quite well. We get to talk, and converse regularly. I’m very interested in the 2020 election audits. I want those to be done everywhere. I’m more than happy to have my election results audited. I think it would just mean that I won by more votes.
